Personal Canon: Bandom and Greek

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I did the "personal canon" meme, and wanted to round up my responses. Since apparently I am never going to actually FINISH any of the ten million fics I am writing. Ever. Here is pseudo-fic to tide you over!


(Warning: I am most mired in my drama-filled epic WiP, and uh. Spencer and Ryan are kind of bitter and ridic in that. So, well, their share of personal canon was not precisely cheery. I promise I love them, even though that totally does not come across here.)

Give me a character from a fandom I follow/have followed and I will give you up to five facts about them from my personal canon--that is to say, it may not be confirmed as true, but it's true in my head.


--Half the time, Zack can't believe he gets to hang out with the cool kids. The other half of the time, he just can't believe that these are the cool kids

--Brendon is Zack's secret favorite; it dates back to Brendon getting sloshed and affectionate and sad, back in the days before Jon Walker when Ryan and Spencer disapproved of Brendon drinking and Brendon was missing a support system. Somebody had to haul the kid home, and somehow Zack started really loving this stupid lonely kid who only had Zack to lean on.

--Sometimes when Zack is at home, and his dogs all sleep in a pile on top of each other, he watches them wuffle into each other's ears and misses being on tour.

--Zack was vaguely disgusted with this gig when he first got it, the tiny twiglike emo boys with their makeup and hair straighteners. They won him over with time and adorableness, and now he wouldn't trade it for anything, but he's still tempted to lie about which band is his at like, festivals with hardcore metal bands when the security guys are all hanging out bitching about their jobs.

--Carol doesn't make him discuss it, but for the first few days after he gets back, he's a lot more tactile than he is most of the time, and a lot more inclined to pull her down and just cuddle for a while.




--Brendon does not call himself a Mormon. Ever. He might say "former" Mormon or "raised" Mormon, but he isn't Mormon anymore, and it's a central fact of who he is, that the label doesn't apply anymore. It's difficult for a lot of people to understand, but being LDS is about more than just your belief in God, it's about your social and cultural understanding; how you interact with people and how you define yourself. Deciding not to be LDS is about more than rejecting the doctrine, and so being "not" becomes as much a part of your definition of you as being it ever did.

--Brendon is a total sub; he's an attention whore and consistently uncertain of his place in and right to relationships; subbing reassures him in what he's doing right and wrong, and gives him that sense of being the center of what's going on. However, he's also really flickery on trusting people, so he doesn't often get to the stage where he's getting what he needs.

--Brendon is fucked in the head about sex, love, and relationships. Being raised LDS does funky things to your ideas about sex, anyway, and the people who took him in hand after he rejected what he was raised with were basically Ryan Ross and the scene in general, neither of which were good role models. He was quickly introduced to people who wanted to use sex to get places, people who slept around indiscriminately, people who used him for his fame and face, etc. He seems to be growing into a better place now, with Sarah and all, which pleases me, but he'll always have those secret insecurities and weird triggers and asshole tendencies that come from his early training.

--Brendon's family try, really hard, and most of the time he appreciates it, even though he wishes it were easier for them, both for their sake and because he hates feeling like he's an effort to love. He's only sorry for his choices when they seem to be hurting his family, though, he isn't sorry when they hurt him; and those choices only hurt him when they separate him from his family, when he can't participate in the rituals that define their lives.

--Brendon is often fully aware that what he's doing is going to hurt, he's not stupid, okay, but he gets bored easily and he has impulse control issues. He's fully aware that the people who love him try to keep him busy for his own sake, and he loves them for it most of the time, even though sometimes it chafes. He never thought he would be able to find anything like music for getting him to the still, clean space in his head, where he's fully alive and interested and involved, but also still, at peace. That's why he fell for surfing so hard, because it was like music, that whoosh of being alive and that perfect balance.



--Shane sees everything, then watches it over and over again, alone in his studio. (The band) doesn't even want to think about the things Shane probably knows about all of them. Which is a quote from this fic, but is still absolutely the truest Shane thing I have ever imagined.

--Shane still has moments of friendish guilt about riding Panic's coattails sometimes, but mostly between his genuine affection for them, his irritation with Brendon's wet towels, and his deep awareness that of all the people filming them, he's the only one he trusts to do right by them, it gets squashed flat pretty quickly.

--Shane has an understanding of Brendon and Brendon's appeal/charm/whathaveyou that surpasses that of Panic's publicists as well as most of the other people who know him. He knows that Brendon's most genuine and endearing moments are when he is being a big, fat, giant DORK. (See, on the moments of tour he chose to share with us: air bass-fiddle. For example.)

--Shane's attachment to Brendon runs deep in subtle and sympathetic ways. I'll never get over those Christmas pictures, because hi, he has a family of his own, and presumably also an in-laws family, but no, he went on vacation with Brendon and his family. No matter how much or little of a buffer Brendon needs when spending days in the same space as his family, Shane chose to be there and provide it rather than go anywhere else. Whether you ship them or not, that's a form of love.

--Shane is self-conscious about his hair, and he and Patrick have secret conversations nobody knows about involving which hats are the best for which kinds of coverage and what kind of brims fit their respective face-shapes.



--Greta kicks more ass than anybody gives her credit for; not just in "awesomeness" but in s genuine hardcore take-neither-shit-nor-prisoners way. She has faith in herself most of the time and she stands up for herself always.

--Greta is going somewhere with her life; this music gig isn't just passing time for her. She has plans, and sometimes they kick her in the teeth but she just goes out and makes more of them. You'll never convince me she doesn't budget her time cleverly and competently--I still can't get over the fact that she was taking college classes on tour. Not just the tours where they were riding along with big names and had a bus, but in the van, for fuck's sake.

--She's also kind of a perfectionist, which is why this album is TAKING SO DAMN LONG. (I have to believe that, or go CRAZY)

--She's not a Pollyanna, things get her down sometimes, but she fights really hard to see things the good way and not let other people change that about her; she tries not to spend time with the kind of people who try.

--She and Zack have a pretty solid friendship, not a talk-every-day kind, exactly, or even a personal-crises kind--she'd never go to him if she was, like, crying--but if she ever got arrested he's who she would call for bail, and she's his backup plan if Carol can't get down to the jail for whatever reason. They have a mutual respect for each other's competence and dry humour. (And she and Carol don't know each other well, but once or twice there have been tour girls' nights that ended in tipsiness, snorts of laughter, and boys demanding to know what's so funny the next day.) (I am totally basing that off, like, six seconds of Honda Civic video and a few pictures. Try not to judge me.)



--Ryan has affected Spencer's growth, instincts, and attitudes more than anyone fully comprehends, especially Ryan and Spencer. The person who gets it most is probably Brendon, who's had the longest time observing them since they stabilised their patterns (Ginger/other family have more time, but they watched the process and so don't quite get the extremes it has reached) and has the most invested in the pair of them and in each of them individually.

--Spencer's role models are all people who fix shit--who make tours run smoother and do spectacular plumbing on HGTV and run his finances. None of them are people who fix people, lawyers or social workers or shrinks. He still can't work a socket wrench and spends inordinate amounts of time trying to make people happier or more functional or more stable.

--Spencer sometimes tries to do serious, complicated, gourmet cooking. It always ends in disaster. He's actually pretty good at the basics, but most of the time either they order in or he tries seventy-step recipes, the correct taste of which he has no idea. He only cooks the stuff he's good at--burgers, eggs, pasta--when he or someone he's eating with need comfort food.

--Spencer is a bitch when he's sick. He keeps telling you exactly what he wants you to do and then snapping at you for helping.

--Spencer helped train Bogart and Dylan and Marley as well as his own dogs, and they listen to him before they listen to their owners. He didn't help train Hobo because Ryan was going through a pissy, "indepence" stage, which is why eventually she wound up being sent to a fancy obedience school and returned as untrainable.



--Ryan still has no clue how much he influenced Spencer's personality. He's deeply aware of and grateful for Spencer's influence on his childhood.

--This is a theory I've voiced before, but it's essential to my view of him: the problem with Ryan is that most teenagers, you know, they get that self-important angst and feel special and hurty and all the rest of that, and they get out into the world and realise that seriously, they are not that special and nobody really cares about their pain, and then they get the fuck over themselves and become ordinary human beings. Ryan, on the other hand, had his special snowflake status confirmed by a platinum record. This is a large part of why he is the way he is.

--Ryan in bed is dedicated and serious and focused on being really good at what he's doing...which he mostly is, but because he's practiced, he pays attention, he's focused, it's serious business. He only laughs in bed when he's high. (Or sexing up Spencer, because Spencer is still the only person he's that comfortable with)

--Ryan gets his highly unsubtle guilting techniques from his mother

--Ryan's issues with picturing long-term goals and consequences bite him in the ass more often than he's willing to admit



--Pete's greatest fears are about Bronx; about Bronx inheriting his fucked-up brain chemistry, about making the mistakes his parents made, about (seriously) dropping him down the stairs.

--He's a pretty awesome dad, in spite of or maybe because of that. Bronx is going to get to explore all the aspects of his personality and be a sulky teenager and get exposed to cultures from all over the world.

--Pete's business/publicity acumen comes largely from knowing what makes him love things, and making those points known to the internet. Brendon's lullaby was his idea, for instance, because watching Brendon play with Bronx has made him love Brendon more than anything before ever did.

--Pete still has an overwhelming sense of gratitude for Ashlee, and is really mushy about it, but it's okay because she's just as thankful for him.

--Also, for all they were skeptical at first, Ashlee totally fits into Pete's DD family, and he loves watching her tease William and curl up for girlchat with Vicky-T. Pete's chosen family is the most important thing in the world to him.



Okay, warning: I OTP the shit out of Rusty/Cappie, so one is totally biased.

--Cappie would never admit it, even now, but originally he took to Rusty so much because Rusty reminded him of Evan. There was a hole there. It only took a few weeks to realise that Rusty wasn't helping to fill that hole. However, Rusty's created his own place in Cappie's life, a different place that Cappie tries not to think about too closely, because it makes him feel shy in a way he never has before. Cappie is never going to ask for that lavolier back, even though he knows Jordan gave it to Rusty, because he secretly likes the thought that Rusty has Cappie's lavolier, even if he doesn't wear it

--Cappie looks up to his dad and loves him fiercely; the only thing about his father that he would change is to give him the kind of recognition he deserves as an amazing human being. It bothers him that someone who could be such a force for good and who deserves so much better is still just an Arts and Crafts counsellor. He isn't ashamed, exactly, he just wishes his father wanted more so Cappie could be sure he was happy, be sure the whole world knew how awesome he was, despite all the evidence that his dad has exactly the life he wants to lead.

--Cappie's mother, on the other hand, is fragile and precious in his head; they have a mutual tenderness that they never quite manage to hide, even in public, even when Cappie was thirteen and hated his parents the way all teenagers do. She was a tiny, sheltered upper-middle-class princess (in my head, when she was a teenager she had long, almost-white, perfectly straight and silken hair, lovingly brushed and conditioned and never even a little grimy...up until) when she flirted with the idea of becoming a hippie and fell in love with his dad at a concert and ran away to live in a cramped, filthy van, on the road all the time. She was a total good sport and loved the life, but she was utterly clueless about things like laundry and cooking, and Cappie's dad never quite got over the idea that she was too good to be true and a little too good for him. Cappie sort of picked up on that idea by osmosis, that she deserved extra care, and she was a fabulous mother who just wrapped him up in her love. They're very special to each other. (And her upper-middle-class parents are the ones paying for his education.)

--All of this stuff with his parents is mostly undercurrenty, though, they're all very joky and teasing with each other. Cappie totally learned the fine art of sarcasm at his father's knee and honed it at his mother's mixing bowl.

--They're part of the reason Cappie has no ambition, though, because he grew up in a fabulously happy household that had no real drive. He tries major after major because he wants to find something that makes him that happy, and nothing really has. It isn't that he doesn't want to graduate, or to work, it's just that he isn't going to settle for a daily grind that is interesting on alternate Tuesdays.

Comments

[libgirl.livejournal.com]

:)

I really, really love your canon. I whole-heartedly agree about the Ryan and Spencer and that's because I have had friendships that long and they really do start to warp the fabric of yourself--not in bad ways, in trees growing around object ways.

I'll never get over those Christmas pictures, because hi, he has a family of his own, and presumably also an in-laws family, but no, he went on vacation with Brendon and his family. No matter how much or little of a buffer Brendon needs when spending days in the same space as his family, Shane chose to be there and provide it rather than go anywhere else. Whether you ship them or not, that's a form of love.


I have never seen these pics!!! :( Still, yes, Shane totally loves Brendon and Brendon totally loves him and I would say that Brendon's love for Shane and his band are the only loves that make real sense to him right now because he has been so affected by his upbringing. :D

I love the heck out of this post, even the Rusty and Cappie stuff which makes no sense to me as I do not know who they are. :D

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

Oh, but you should. EVERYBODY should watch Greek. And when they have, ship Rusty/Cappie with me. (Rachel disagrees with me, but that is only because she is blinded by epic-friendship-turned-to-hate. She does not see the adorableness of would-do-anything-for-eachother darlings.)

[trinity_clare]

Seriously, PLATINUM RECORD. Oh Ryan. ;_;

And so much yes to the way Ryan and Spencer have influenced each other. I happen to have a BFF of my very own (she is very clearly the Ryan to my Spencer; we met when we were six) and every once in a while I'll meet one of her aunts or someone who's never met me before, and they'll always comment on how much we sound alike. (It's really noticeable over IM, too, because we only ever talk to each other and it's completely shaped the way we use it.)

In conclusion: OH SHANE. &him;

[redorchids.livejournal.com]

I loved reading this. I haven't thought that much about what my personal canon is, but it's probably very close to what you just wrote, seeing as how I was just nodding along and going "yes, that makes so much sense" through this whole thing. :-) Especially liked the Ryan/Spencer/Brendon stuff. That made my head go all "oooooh!" :-)

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

Hey! Popped by while looking at your primer about Mormonism, and then I read this, and it has this ring of, well, not truth, exactly, but I really, really like the three-dimension way in which you perceive all these characters and their fears and depths. All the littlest things that make them who they are in (your) fic, and basically, you articulated the twists and abyss in their characters that make them so interesting as people and !


Ryan, on the other hand, had his special snowflake status confirmed by a platinum record.

I've never seen this side of Ryan before (or, more accurately, I've never wanted to see it because I like seeing Ryan as his special snowflake thing - sorry, that sounded a little weird /: ) but it's definitely a fascinating angle to explore, as are all the other aspects of your personal fandom. Thank you for giving me a new perspective (reference unintended!) on these bandom characters :D

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

I think the snowflake thing has its upsides and downsides, you know? It means in some ways he never grew up, and in some ways he was validated in ways he never had been before and that he needed, and in some ways it probably made him feel like what's valuable about himself is the parts that are broken. I'm really interested to see how he does with starting over as a small-time band...although in a lot of ways he'll never lose that reputation.


Hah, sorry, rambling. Thanks for letting me know you enjoyed it!

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

in some ways it probably made him feel like what's valuable about himself is the parts that are broken.

Hearing this kind of makes me want to hug! Ryan, but that misses the point, completely (or rather, reinforces? it) This is something I've always wondered, though: Ryan's childhood, how bad was it? I'm not trying to discount the impact of his dad's alcoholism and his mom's departure, but did it completely break him? I think this is a part that's highly stylized in bandom - it becomes the unshakable foundation on which Ryan is developed as a character, something that's taken for granted, somehow.

I would like to see what TYV does, too! I read someplace in LJ that it's possible Ryan could be tired of his spot in the limelight, and just wants to retreat a little, be able to play to small groups of fans and talk to them about music, make it a little personal. Although if his band becomes famous too ... that'll be ironic.

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

No, I mean, yes, yeah, that, but--Fever's about being broken, mostly. Is my point. Fever and the press after Fever were about being full of angst and self-doubt and rage against the world, and those things sold, those things raised him up and got him fame and money and the things he'd dreamed of. If I were him, I'd be a little scared to grow up and remember the good things and the valid part of my childhood and reach for happiness because what if nobody wanted that part of me? You know? People clearly wanted the arrogant, angry, hurt parts, but those are never what make up the whole person...but wouldn't you feel pressured to stay as those parts of you?

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound - my comment wasn't directed at you /0\ I was just thinking about it, and I wanted to ask you because your thoughts showed such clarity (:

Yeah, I agree, entirely - and well, I'm part of the masses who adored Fever and its emotion, so - in a sense I have contributed to Ryan's ): ): Would you say Pretty. Odd. was a counterpoint to that, then (except well, the response to that album was more mixed, wasn't it?) and - in that light, I would suppose Panic's journey as Ryan's band had ended with those two albums, the two issues thrashed out, and that's how he felt okay, even compelled, to leave?

This is going to influence my perception of Ryan's persona a lot, jsyk :D Thank you!

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

LOL, didn't mean to come off defensive either, so we're even. I just get passionate on the subjects of Ryan And Brendon And How They Are And Also Probably Aren't Screwed Up. (You should be grateful you didn't start me off on Brendon, really. Brendon and sex and girls are a topic I go off on for days.)

I do think Pretty was counterpoint to that, an effort to reach beyond it, and I think the mixed reception it got was--well, okay, I don't really know a lot about music as music, but from the reviews I've read etc. I think a large part of that mixed reception was that people were expecting something so entirely different from him, and I think that touring with Pretty--particularly the RBL tour, because of a few things some fellow Zackgirls and I put together in the course of our M&G comparisons--sort of drove home the point that he was never going to shake having to be the Fever-Ryan, that what he could do with the other parts of himself weren't going to measure up to that in the eyes and minds of the public, and I think--in a way I really hope--that it was the driving force behind the breakup, that really insistent need to at least try to see what kind of person he could be and what kind of music he could make if he stopped being that guy from Panic at the Disco, you know the one with the goddamn door and the harlequin girls.


(Also, I think Ryan is kind of fucked in the head about how the passion and emotion of Fever could be applied to the joy and freedom of Pretty, because...there's a reason Fever sold, there's a reason so many people were moved by it, you know? I think he comparmentalises too much, and if he'd give himself permission to be that happy, as much as he was that angry, that his music would be just as wonderful. I think Pretty--and I mean, don't get me wrong, I loved Pretty, but...even I the music-ignorant can tell it's a little derivative and large portions of the lyrics don't make sense--I think Pretty was too much, there was too much pressure, and so when he went this new direction he was totally and completely unsure of himself, and he didn't put himself on the line lyrically in much of it (and the ones he did are unquestionably the best songs on the album). I think if he'd trusted himself to dive into happiness the same way he did into teenaged angst the album would have had the same kind of success.)

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

Feel free to go off on a tangent about Brendon :D In fact, here, direct question: What do you think about Brendon?

*grins*

Yes! I didn't get the negative reviews that were all, but this is not Fever! I was like, yeah, isn't that the point? I've always thought versatility was a hallmark of a good artist. But I share your hopes that Ryan will be able to find what he needs and make what he wants out of music outside of Panic. In a sense, this perspective makes the break-up a lot easier to bear - even necessary, in a sense, so. The implications on the fic, though! I was afraid for a little while - now that both FOB and TAI are kind of on a hiatus, and Panic has changed their profile completely, and those had been the three bigger bands in the consciousness of fandom, I was wondering how it might affect the fic output/trend/directions, but - we just seem to be continuing on with our writing, so :D (Like, even though there's divorce! fic and all, it doesn't really dominate.)

It's always easier to lose yourself in anger than happiness /: IDK, quite obviously Pretty. Odd.'s lyrics had a lot of ...what?! moments, but I kind of enjoyed that (lol, me. I don't have much exposure in music, either, obviously.) Fever's lyrics weren't exactly typical linear narratives, either, so - is it that angst is more universal, and easily understood even when implicit, and the happier version of such abstractness just gets people scratching their heads? But I can sort of see what you mean about the uncertainty at this new direction! Like, Ryan in the cabin happy and also a little terrified because it's been a long while since he was this happy, and trying to put that into words but - like you said, not willing to put everything out there.

Out of curiosity, which do you think are the best songs on the album? (:

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

Well, speaking strictly lyrically, I will cling to Folkin' Around as my emo song for the rest of my natural-born days; I don't actually like the album version much because of the damn fiddles but I have three different live versions in my collection and when he performed it on HCT I was dripping tears. The LDS references are so obvious to me and it's such a brave song about finding your self and your own faith and just...seriously, every time my bigoted oldest brother makes a crack about gay people or my father reminds me that God loves me and as proof of that I will someday find a nice man and have lots of children, I go lock myself up and play the Glastonbury version over and over and over again until I can breathe, despite the fact that I am 24 and really too old for that kind of thing.

Of Ryan's songs, I think quality-wise Gentleman, She Had the World, Rabbits, and Pas de Cheval were the best; I actually really love Downpour although I think it's more fractured and my personal favorite is Day Met the Night but a big part of that actually is the sound of it separate from the lyrics.

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're ever too old for that ♥

Folkin' Around (and Northern Downpour and She Had The World!) all make me stop whatever I'm doing at the moment to catch my breath a bit and just listen, but before you mentioned it (and your primer on LDS), I've never actually seen all the references to that part of his life, so thank you again for bringing that to my notice, since it's pretty significant, considering it's one of the first few (?) songs Brendon wrote in Panic.

I am now off to watch your fic journal! \0/ Would friend, but not sure what your policy on that is, so.

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

I would be delighted to have you! Might I be permitted to friend you back?

[allegedlykyle.livejournal.com]

I will be enthused \0/ Hi, friend!